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Dry Nitrous Questions? - Event Date: January/01/1900 - January/01/1900

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hayabusajeff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayabusajeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Calendar Event: Dry Nitrous Questions?
    Posted: February/07/2003 at 6:13pm

brock

i would like to get your in put on (nos) dry shot for my busa

i have the pc3r and street smart pipe and the air box mods lowerd and straped

could i get some info on the best setup

thanks

hayabusajeff

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Every bike is different according to bottle pressure and nozzle placement.  The only way to be sure is to put in on a dyno with a sniffer and check A/F.  Remember to install a pressure guage and stick with the same pressure every time.  Generally the bikes we have tested hit a lean spike at initial start and smooth back to norm through the pull, however if you have to much bottle pressure the bike will lean out way off the scales.  Keep the dry shot small and simple for best results and cheapest gains.  Call me Monday and I ww can talk about my favorate spot for the nozzle.
  
THEFASTESTMOFO  Dustin Clark
Making fast..FASTER and really fast..STUPID FAST!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2003 at 10:24am

As Dustin stated….simple/smart and don’t get greedy. 

Nitrous is a strange beast: When all is well, things are good!  When things go wrong, they go VERY wrong. Nitrous oxide is perhaps the most unforgiving of all power adders. 

We have used small loads of dry nitrous for simple, safe performance gains. 

Use your head! Get everything working well at first: The stock (cr9e) spark plugs work well (don’t get fancy).  High octane race fuel is far less likely to detonate than pump gas….at a minimum use the highest pump fuel available in your area. Etc.

Even though most Nitrous kit manufacturers suggest using the buttons on your Power Commander to enrich the system……we know these buttons make 2-dimensional changes to 3-dimensional maps! Usually, the button changes offset any potential gains at the track. 

If a 30hp shot is worth 6 mph in the quarter…but your button changes slow you down 5 mph…the net gain is 1mph. We have seen and proved this at the track. 

With a single #26 jet….we leave the StreetSmart track map installed with no changes. 

If you want to try more spray….we have modified maps available to StreetSmart customers.

Brock

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KennAL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2003 at 12:19pm

Hello,

Do you suggest running MR1 with a Dry Shot?

P-Funk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2003 at 10:31am

We do not recommend any oxygenated fuel with nitrous oxide:

 face=Tahoma color=#800080 http://brockracing.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=16&TopicID=31&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1 

Nutec, Elf, VP…etc. If it has oxygen, the burn rate is usually too fast for SAFE use with nitrous.

Brock

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrickBusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2005 at 9:25am
Quote: Originally posted by Bones on April 20 05
Brock whats the story on the dry shot distribution block when can we have them???????

Yeah Brock , are they still in the works?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRYAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2006 at 2:51pm

Ken,

The wet systems are much safer. I have a 65 wet system on one of my busas. I am going to an 80 shot this year. pulling timing and running good gas is a must. I think you could spray 100 shot on a stock engine. The rods would probably go before the pistons if everything was tuned right.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KenF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2006 at 11:51am

I will be using a RPM window box to prevent spraying on the limiter or when the motor is lugging.

I hear some guys going to two short stacks in the air box.

Is there an advantage to this ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2006 at 4:13pm

Brock’s Performance does not recommend or endorse the use of Dry Nitrous Oxide ** AT ALL**

If you received as many phone calls as we do about destroyed engines/melted heads/damaged crankshafts etc….. you might think twice about using it also.

There is NO WAY we can be convinced that all 4 cylinders receive the same amount of nitrous using a typical dry nitrous kit.

Of Course...if you get ANY Nitrous to an engine, it will go faster…for a while.

But, if cylinder #2 is making 15 hp more than cylinder #1...the associated harmonics are VERY hard on engine (bearing) life.

FYI: We found this out with our showerheads on Pro Mod bikes years ago. Once we stabilized the exhaust gas temperature (before the showerheads, 400 degrees difference between cylinders was common?!), the bikes went faster AND lived longer.

It would not be truthful for me to say that we don’t have some customers using dry nitrous with good results. We have had some decent results ourselves. BUT, they are hit and miss. For each one good- we see one (or more) bad.

We believe Dry Nitrous use is like playing Russian Roulette; if you want to play this game… it’s up to you. But we won’t be a part of it.

We NO LONGER provide any MAP SUPPORT for Dry Nitrous use.

We recommend wet nitrous for consistent performance with good engine life.

If you simply must have dry, you read the above posts to see how we recommend it to be used.

We TRULY wish you THE BEST of LUCK!

Brocks Performance

PS. We have already developed and tested our Hayabusa Dry Nitrous Distribution block. It is NOT currently available because there is still no way to add the proper amount of fuel ON spray without seriously hampering performance OFF spray. We are working with several different manufacturers to cure this problem. We hope to have it all worked out soon. Then again… we hoped the same thing several years ago.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fastbusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2006 at 10:27pm
 i run dry but brock is very correct about the dry nos systems!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigshow1??? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2006 at 12:51am
i also run a dry system, but i don't use it much. i was wondering if you can run a wet system with the stock pistons in a busa without doing much damage.  thanks brock!!
all brocked out(& spraying)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy2671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2006 at 8:28am

Yes you can run a wet shot with stock piston! it will  be safer and you can spray a bigger shot.

2008 KAWASAKI ZX14 (ALL BROCKED OUT)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigshow1??? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2006 at 3:44pm
thanks tommy
all brocked out(& spraying)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nightmare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2006 at 2:06pm
Hey Brock!  Do you have a map for running nitrous.  If so HELP.  I may be running to lean or rich.  Would love to see the numbers on that set-up as well.
I'm rick james btch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dubcity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2007 at 1:02pm
Hey tommy I also have a gsxr 1000. Mine is an 05 and I'm planning on goin with head and cams. I'm still want to be able to ride the street and street race sometimes. What's the best cams n lift to use along with a good head. Should I redo the valves also? I read the forum about the dry shot n I was thinkin about gettin a 30 shot or somethin wouldn't use it much but not sure now. Wondering what shot you use on urs if you have it and is it wet?
"Street Sweepin"
05 GSXR 1000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy2671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2007 at 8:04pm

I would run a high comp. piston (JE), leave the head alone unless you are going to put  oversized valves in. Then contact web for a custom grind cam for your set up along with adj. cam sprockets. I don't have spray on my 1000, It is set up for 1000ss. But we do have 1000's with spray ( anywhere from 40-80hp dry)on stock rods and JE pistons.Everybody say's they won't use the nitrous much, UNTIL THEY USE IT!!!! ITS WORSE THAN CRACK.. LOL. But good luck and if you have any other questions let me know. Tommy

2008 KAWASAKI ZX14 (ALL BROCKED OUT)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MRCLEAN5769 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2008 at 7:48am
Quote: Originally posted by Brock on February 08 03

As Dustin stated….simple/smart and don’t get greedy. 

Nitrous is a strange beast: When all is well, things are good!  When things go wrong, they go VERY wrong. Nitrous oxide is perhaps the most unforgiving of all power adders. 

We have used small loads of dry nitrous for simple, safe performance gains. 

Use your head! Get everything working well at first: The stock (cr9e) spark plugs work well (don’t get fancy).  High octane race fuel is far less likely to detonate than pump gas….at a minimum use the highest pump fuel available in your area. Etc.

Even though most Nitrous kit manufacturers suggest using the buttons on your Power Commander to enrich the system……we know these buttons make 2-dimensional changes to 3-dimensional MAPs! Usually, the button changes offset any potential gains at the track. 

If a 30hp shot is worth 6 mph in the quarter…but your button changes slow you down 5 mph…the net gain is 1mph. We have seen and proved this at the track. 

With a single #26 jet….we leave the StreetSmart track MAP installed with no changes. 

If you want to try more spray….we have modified MAPs available to StreetSmart customers.

Brock



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote QtrMileHuslr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 12:59pm

Whats up Brock, and all the Brock Heads...Question! I purchased a Dry Nitrous/Air Shifter Combo Kit. I just purchased a Spray Bar just seconds ago to get an even distribution of the " Go Juice". Have you and your camp had the chance to test the product? Does this  make the dry systems safer for the engine,and meet your standards ?

Get N Where U Fit N
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1motime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2008 at 6:33pm
yeah please answer that last post
ced
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasongillum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2008 at 7:59am

The spray bar makes the distribution of the nitrous a little more even between all cylinders than just spraying it into the airbox, but dry spray is still not the best way to do it.

Jason Gillum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigbOOtyBusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 3:57am
I know that you guys don't recommend dry nitrous kits, but I have had both wet and dry systems in the past and prefer dry because of its simplicity. Can you please tell me where is the best place to mount a dual nozzle system in an 08 1K's air box, ie, before the air filter in the ram air tubes, or after the filter in the air box lid?
Knocking em off one 1/4 at a time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxspeedsti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 10:37am

What is the best whey then .I in no way will hold you guys responcible for any damages . I just need to know the right nitrous kit to buy . so my questions would be

1. What wet system to buy?

2. What shot to go with to give me 55 - 65hp over stock ?

3.  Who are some good tuners in the South East area to take it to get tuned ?

 My bike and current setup are :

08 busa ,Alien Head /pair valve mod / no secondaries /-1 front 1 up rear/ 63 inch stretch/ web 378 intake cam / stock intake on exhaust side/ pc3/ Tre/ all short stacks/ Xpo 0w oil/mps airshifter/190 shinko ultra soft / I am 243 suited.Best et. 9.2@151 with a 1.60  60 ft. My goal Is to get the bike into the 8s on motor and to get into the 8.6 range on spray.

Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2011 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Brock Brock wrote:

As Dustin stated: keep it simple, be smart and don't get greedy. 

Nitrous is a strange beast: When all is well, things are good!  When things go wrong, they go VERY wrong. Nitrous oxide is perhaps the most unforgiving of all power adders. 

 
We have used small loads of dry nitrous for simple, safe performance gains. 

Use your head... Get everything working well at first: The stock (NGK CR9E = .022 gap) spark plugs work well (don't get fancy).  High octane race fuel is far less likely to detonate than pump gas... at a minimum use the highest pump fuel available in your area. Etc.

 

Even though most Nitrous kit manufacturers suggest using the buttons on your Power Commander to enrich the system... we know these buttons make 2-dimensional changes to 3-dimensional maps - so we don't suggest this.  Usually, the button changes offset any potential gains at the track. If a 30 hp shot is worth 6 mph in the quarter, but your button changes slow you down 5 mph, the net gain is 1 mph. We have seen and proved this at the track. 

With a single #26 jet - we leave the track map installed with no changes and good fuel.  VP MRX01 is a great oxygenated fuel for this set-up with excellent off spray performace also.

 
Brock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teagueca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2011 at 11:42pm
is the stock '07 busa motor with alienhead and filter with TRE capable of holding small amounts of nos? I have to man up and say that my wife runs the house... But she isnt always on the back of the bike. any suggestions that arent too pricey? Ive already had to backcut the tranny, but just did the bottom end. I did all the work myself and left the top end alone. I dont want to have to tear into the top until absolutely necessary. just wanna get the most out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy2671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2011 at 9:04am
A stock motor will hold nitrous "IF" set up correctly!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teagueca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2011 at 4:58pm
thank you, i just wasnt sure if i needed forged pistons...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1fastzx14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/30/2011 at 2:02pm
i understand that the dryshot can be dangourus, but at what dagree? i will only be sparayig a maximum of 30hp shot on stock motor with no 2nd flys.. so are my risks just as bad as if i would spray a 60hp shot? or at what hp shot would you consider the safest?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy2671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 8:54am
People get really greedy when it comes to nitrous!! Its like crack,always want more and more! I wouldn't go over a 60 shot on stock pistons and rods!Good Fuel and Timing...I also run surface gap plugs(really expensive) just to be on the safe side, but is cheaper than a new engine! Get it to a repitable tuner before you spray it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N2OBusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2011 at 1:28pm
Tommy I have an 08 Busa all Brocked out and have been spaying a small dry shot on the track with no issues since 08. My question is on the 08 are the pistons or the valves the weak link ? I would like to go from a 30hp shot up to around 50 or 55. I have two nozzels one in each  ram air tube. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy2671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2011 at 9:03pm
"PERSONALLY" I wouldn't worry! If all is tuned properly you shouldn't have a problem.Did you have your bike mapped for the 30 shot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy2671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2011 at 9:12pm
And sorry to answer your question....The valve springs seem to be the weakest part....spitting shims! Your safest bet would probably be keeping the bike around 215-220 hp on all the stock internals!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N2OBusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2011 at 11:01pm
I have 3 maps built for it on the dyno. A pump map for daily use. A MS109 map and a nitrous map. It currently makes around 225-230 on the nitrous. I would like to see 240-250 but also don't really want to hurt the motor before I switch to a turbo setup for next season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy2671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2011 at 6:06am
In my honest opinion most of the time when something bad happens on nitrous it's not the nitrous's fault!! Rider error,faulty electronics,faulty mechanical parts or not tuned! I have sprayed MORE than 50 on both stock 1000's and busa's for consecutive years without any problems but I was really careful in my progression!
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Thanks for the information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wall112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2014 at 12:10am
Guys I need your help...  (Yep Newbee)    Install a 40hp dryshot kit with spray bar setup with WOT switch and 2 nob controller.   Currently have race map from Brocks loaded in the PC III but not sure where to start as a baseline for fuel map from mid to high range throttle.  I would like to get a few ideas before i try it out.  Thanks

05 ZX10 --- Brocks exhaust, TRE, Kaw race cams, BMC filter, PCIII

Only ride on the dragstrip

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2014 at 9:07am
Wall112, you will certainly need to add more fuel when you are spraying.  Unfortunately we do not deal with nitrous anymore as we focus on getting the most performance possible out of stock motors.  Please read through the entire thread for any prior information. 

However, I highly recommend getting a nitrous map made on the dyno by a trusted professional.  I would also ditch the WOT switch and go to a button that activates the nitrous.

Good luck!
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